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Thursday, January 05, 2006

Intelligent Design

Galileo was scorned by the community of scholars for his discovery that the Earth revolves around the Sun instead of vice versa. It took years before this became accepted truth. Now evolution has been debunked, and like Galileo, ID-er's are persecuted for their discovery.

One of the most ferocious debates in the blogosphere is Intelligent Design; any post regarding ID v. Random Design conjures self-proclaimed experts from every corner of the web many of whom may not have had an inkling of instruction beyond high school science class. The angry, often escalating, rhetoric of RD 'experts' is so unappealing it makes you think they are insecure in their faith.

Yet, as I was perusing my feeder today, I came across Mere Orthodoxy's four posts on what ID is and isn't. I enjoyed them and think you will:

Part I - What is NOT Intelligent Design?
Part II - What, then, IS intelligent design?
Part III - What does "intelligent" mean?
A refreshingly clear definition

Thoughtful Readers Speak:
Hi JR,
I was wondering what the basis for this statements was: Now evolution has been debunked.
Since evolution was and is accepted by all of the scientific mainstream, how exactly has it been debunked? Of course there have been individual applications of the evolutionary theory to this bird or that rat which have been retracted as new data came in, but this only reinforces the science underlying evolution. I just don't understand how exactly the overall theory has in any way been disproven.
 
Hi, ID and RD are mutually exclusive meaning they can't both be true. One is right, the other is wrong.

When Galileo made his discovery, most 'scientists' of the day rejected his findings as heretical. His theories debunked their theories but were later widely accepted.

Your comment, "Since evolution was and is accepted by all of the scientific mainstream" is normal and there are many scientist who agree with you. Though I think you premise is incorrect, I sympathize; you're normal.

I suggest we are in the same period of time for the ID debate for which Galileo found himself thrown in jail. ID is rejected by many, but that number decreases with every discovery.
 
Ok, understood.
So, you believe then in an absolute dichotomy between religion and evolution, then? There is no way for one to have faith in a (Christian) god and also believe in evolution? Or is it more that you embrace the "scientific" teachings of ID, and prefer them to evolution?
I notice you are calling evolution "Random Design". Is this correct? I have never heard the term (RD) before.
 
I don't think a position on creation is necessary for salvation. So, it is possible to become a Christian and to have various thinking about creation. Becoming a Christian isn't that difficult.

Though its not a prerequisite to becoming a Christian, Darwianian evolution tragically derails Christian doctrine and belief.

Regarding RD, I suppose it's not the best term because design implies a designer. But, the random aspect is completely darwinian.
 
Everybody laughed at Galileo, but everybody also laughed at Bozo the Clown.
 
:) even me
 
Thanks for the explanation.
Do you have any links to discussions/support for this statement Darwianian evolution tragically derails Christian doctrine and belief? I have heard many fundamentalists say that Darwin is anti-Christian, but most Internet bloggers are not terrifically versed in the theology or justfications as to why this is so. I have always wanted to understand exactly why people claim that Darwin/evolution is somehow incompatible with Christian doctrine. Any links you can offer would be greatly appreciated.
My (abbreviated) position is that since God created the rules of our universe, with everything from gravity to light to quantum mechanics, there is no conflict in the thought that God created a system of improvement through mutation in order to bring about his plan for the earth. Just because a system is random from our earthly perspective doesn't mean that God isn't still behind it all.
 
Sure, let me get back to you with a day. Look back here, I'll hopefully be able to find a few things for you.
 
I'm pretty sure old time-y religious fanatics (similar to some twenty first century bloggers) also thought Galileo was crazy. The craziness here is that religious types are the ones denouncing science with myth...The very same science that your beloved Galileo indulged in. Hmmm.
 
To suggest that evolution and the Bible are compatible is a position called theistic evolution. I maintain that evolution and the Bible are mutually exclusive; for torrentprime I've made these links available that begin to explain why they are incompatible:

http://www.carm.org/evolution/evtheistic.htm

http://www.answersingenesis.org/creation/v17/i4/theistic_evolution.asp

http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/1990

Again, I don't suggest you need to have a certain view of creation to be a Christian; but the Christian seeking to learn more about the Creator and Savior wants to learn and grown in many areas, including the question of origins.
 
Thanks JR.
Just to level-set here, based on my quick read of the above passages:
Do you believe in the 7 days creation event, with a literal, physical Adam and Eve, created and placed on this earth within a garden as the first 2 humans?
Do you believe in dinosaurs and others pre-human animals existing at the same time or before humans?
I know that some Christians embrace Genesis as a literal, historical account; most have come to understand Genesis as allegory, not a play-by-play. Intelligent design, from what I have read, accepts the age of the earth and pre-human animals, etc.
I wanted to understand where you are coming from before I asked any questions on the above links.
 
Do you believe in the 7 days creation event--yes, but many very smart people and good christians believe in an old earth, day-age, or gap theory (which is be different than theistic evolution)

with a literal, physical Adam and Eve, created and placed on this earth within a garden as the first 2 humans? yes

Do you believe in dinosaurs and others pre-human animals existing at the same time or before humans? yes

I know that some Christians embrace Genesis as a literal, historical account; most have come to understand Genesis as allegory, not a play-by-play. I believe Genesis its a literal historical account; however, many scholars believe that some parts (less than 2%) were added by non-authoritative scribes. Some parts of Genesis are obviously prose; there are songs and poetry in Genesis. I reject that they are just good stories with moral lessons.

I know some about the above organizations; I know they are credible, I don't know if I would agree with everything. But, they are credible in learning about theistic evolution.
 
We don't really use "Darwininan" to describe evolution any more. Specifically, Darwin had an erroneous model of inheritance.

Evolution by natural selection was synthesized with descent by genetic modification to form the modern theory of evolution. And it remains the most accurate scientific model of the history and diversity of life on Earth, which is why it is supported by the entire scientific community, and, indeed, anyone not motivated by a prior intellectual committment to proving it wrong.
 
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